Dead Passage an Inspector Andy Horton mystery "'has all the juicy ingredients that make a good story"

A mysterious telephone call sends Horton on a complex and twisted investigation into the death of a local politician twelve years ago and uncovers a trail of lies, secrets and revenge with roots deep in the past.

"This book has all the juicy ingredients that make a good story: an historic death of a politician, a daughter who urgently wants to speak to the inspector, as she has ‘something to reveal’ about her father’s death, and also a few interesting characters that keep you guessing about who’s telling the truth…and who has something to hide." BH Living Magazine

Available in paperback, as an e book on Amazon Kindle

 Read an extract 


 

Dead Passage, the latest in the Inspector Andy Horton series (14)


A mysterious telephone call sends Horton on a complex and twisted investigation into the death of a local politician twelve years ago and uncovers a trail of lies, secrets and revenge with roots deep in the past.

"A detective novel in the tradition of Rankin and Harvey." Mystery People Magazine

 Available in paperback, as an ebook, on Amazon Kindle and Kobo



Introducing the latest fictional sleuth - Scotland Yard's Inspector Alun Ryga

DEATH IN THE COVE introduces Inspector Alun Ryga.  It is set in 1950, England, a country still suffering the physical and mental scars of six years of war in the grip of austerity and rationing. Recently promoted to Inspector at Scotland Yard, Ryga,a former Merchant Navy seaman and German prisoner-of-war is despatched to the Island of Portland in Dorset to solve an unusual and baffling case.

The 1950s is a fascinating period where memories of the war are very strong, and the fear of more world conflicts haunt people. Society and policing in the 1950s was vastly different to today, no mobile phones, no dashing about and no computers so it was extremely interesting to research and write. 

Scotland Yard were frequently called in to investigate murder cases around the UK so rather than have the novel (and series) rooted in London I could move my detective around the country to help solve crimes.  Once again, though, I wanted to feature the sea in my crime novels - my trademark or brand if you like - so I created a character with an intimate knowledge of the sea, a former Merchant Seaman.

In addition, I didn't want to make Ryga an action hero but sought to differ him from DI Andy Horton and Art Marvik by creating a man who was more reflective.  Neither did I want someone who had been hailed as a war hero but who had been forced to suffer the war in captivity.  Ryga, therefore, is one of many who had no option but to wait and hope for endless days, months and years that the war would end and the Nazis would be defeated.

Ryga’s background, and the years of incarceration, have made him unique in his approach to solving coastal based crimes.  His experience at sea and four years spent in MILAG (Marine Internierten Lager) after his ship was seized by a German Raider has  made him watchful, analytical and reflective and given him insights into his fellow man, along with a promise to himself to keep an open mind. 

The war has also unexpectedly resulted in opening up a new career for Ryga.  Encouraged by a fellow prisoner to study, Ryga with the help of his mentor made the transition from the Merchant Navy to the Thames River Police.  Before DEATH IN THE COVE opens Ryga has been involved in two highly successful criminal investigations at the Port of London and as a result had been catapulted into the Metropolitan Police and then into CID in Scotland Yard. Now he is being called upon to utilize his vast knowledge of the sea on his first solo investigation out of London to discover why a man dressed in a pinstriped suit has been stabbed in the neck and ended up dead on the beach of a small cove on Portland on the Dorset coast.  


DEATH IN THE COVE is published in paperback, ebook, Amazon Kindle, Kobo and an audio book. 26 September 2019.  Available for pre-order.




New 1940s set Murder Mystery Play Murder at Hillingbrook Halt

Delighted to announce that my new 1940s set murder mystery play, MURDER AT HILLINGBROOK HALT is now published. 

Written in the vein of the classic crime thrillers of the 20th century, an Agatha Christie style detective drama that will have audiences guessing ‘who done it,’  Murder at Hillingbrook Halt is my second murder mystery play with my first, Murder at the Pelican Club, set in 1940s war torn Britain.

Murder at Hillingbrook Halt is set in 1948 and was inspired by the Parliamentary trains often referred to as 'ghost trains.'  A Parliamentary train describes a train service which continues to run without passengers, stopping at certain stations that are no longer operational to avoid the cost of formal closure of a route or station


Murder at Hillingbrook Halt

Eight people become marooned in the chilly waiting room of a fogbound isolated railway station, where a coal fire is slowly dying and a cold cup of tea has been abandoned by the missing station master. Is it just chance that has thrown them together or is there an underlying sinister reason?  When the station master staggers into the waiting room and falls dead at their feet it's clear a killer is at large. Each one of them had the opportunity to commit the murder.  Each has a secret to withhold. One of them is a killer who will stop at nothing to protect that secret from being exposed.

The play opens on the platform and takes place in the waiting room of Hillingbrook Halt in December 1948. It has three acts, a cast of 5 males and 3 females and runs for approximately 100 minutes with only one set required.

It was great fun researching and writing this play. I very much look forward to it being performed in the future.

Pauline Rowson


Pauline Rowson is the author of twenty crime novels, fourteen featuring the rugged and flawed Portsmouth detective, Inspector Andy Horton; three in the mystery thriller series featuring Art Marvik, the former Royal Marine Commando now an undercover investigator for the UK's National Intelligence Marine Squad (NIMS), two standalone thrillers, the award winning, In Cold Daylight and In For the Kill and a new 1950 set mystery series introducing Scotland Yard detective, Inspector Alun Ryga (pub date 26 September 2019).

The latest DI Andy Horton crime novel, DEAD PASSAGE, was published in October 2018 in paperback and as an e book, on Amazon Kindle and on Kobo.

Pauline Rowson's books are published in  the UK, Commonwealth and the USA where they are also available on loan from libraries. Her crime novels have been highly acclaimed and have been translated into several languages.

New historical crime novel set in 1950 DEATH IN THE COVE available to pre-order

DEATH IN THE COVE the first in a new historical mystery crime series is now available to pre-order on Kindle, Kobo, in paperback and as an audio book.
DEATH IN THE COVE introduces Scotland Yard detective Inspector Alun Ryga who is sent to investigate a complex murder on the Island of Portland in Dorset. The novel is set in 1950 England, a country still struggling to come to terms with peace in the grip of austerity and rationing.

DEATH IN THE COVE will be published on 26 September 2019. 




The body of a man dressed in a pinstriped suit has been discovered in an isolated cove on the Island of Portland by war photographer, Eva Paisley.  Recently promoted to Inspector, Ryga is keen to prove his worth on his first solo investigation outside of London. Ignoring the warnings of the local police inspector, and the Dorset Chief Constable, that his trust in Eva Paisley is misjudged, Ryga quickly realises that her observations could provide the breakthrough he needs in a complex murder investigation and the answer to the haunting circumstances that have sent the man in the pinstriped suit to his death.

I thoroughly enjoyed creating my new Scotland Yard detective, Inspector Ryga and researching and writing an historical crime novel. Policing in the 1950s was so vastly different to today, no mobile phones, no dashing about and no computers. In addition, the legacy of the Second World War was still very much in evidence.

Ryga is a thoughtful, intelligent and thorough police officer with an understanding of the sea gained during his time in the Merchant Navy and an insight into human nature for both good and evil as witnessed during his days of incarceration in a German prisoner-of-war camp. I hope my readers will enjoy their journey with him and that the new crime novel will also appeal to many new readers.

Death in the Cove will be published in paperback, as an ebook, on Amazon Kindle and Kobo and as an audio book in September 2019.

Pauline Rowson is the author of twenty crime novels, fourteen featuring the rugged and flawed Portsmouth detective, Inspector Andy Horton; three in the mystery thriller series featuring Art Marvik, the former Royal Marine Commando now an undercover investigator for the UK's National Intelligence Marine Squad (NIMS) and two standalone thrillers, the award winning, In Cold Daylight and In For the Kill.  Her crime novels have been described as "Gripping, full of twists and turns, multi-layered, and compelling."

What's on in July 2019 for crime author Pauline Rowson

It's heating up for the summer now here in England and soon the children will break up from school and we'll be into the silly season of beach huts, bathing, beach combing and boating. Not to mention sunstroke, sunburn and swimming!

It's the quiet season for me as regards giving talks with only one slotted in for 9 July at Woolston Library.  I'm looking forward to meeting readers and telling them about the inspiration behind my crime novels.

Although it might be summer and less activity on the talks front there's no rest for the wicked, (not that I am that wicked, you'll have to take my word for that) or rather I should say no rest for an author.  Over the next few weeks or so I'll be walking the coastal paths on the south coast of England (as always looking for a good place to put a body) and although it may be summer, in my mind I'll be in the depths of winter with Inspector Alun Ryga, my new 1950 Scotland Yard detective as he embarks on his second mystery in the East Sussex harbour town of Newhaven.

My regular readers will know that Newhaven is featured in another of my mystery thriller novels, Lost Voyage, with undercover investigator, Art Marvik.  Marvik's missions are very much in the present but for Ryga it is December 1950 in Newhaven where a police constable has been found dead and his wife is missing.

Enough of that for now because readers have yet to meet my new thoughtful, quiet Scotland Yard detective in the first in the mystery series DEATH IN THE COVE due out in paperback, e book, Kindle and Kobo and audio book on 25 September.




Death in the Cove, an Inspector Ryga mystery by Pauline Rowson

I'm very much looking forward to getting feedback from readers on my new crime busting hero, former German prisoner of war, quiet hero, Ryga.  I like him a lot and his side kick war photographer Eva Paisley.  You can read about them in a forthcoming blog this month.


Then in August I'll be doing a final read through of DI Andy Horton 15 which is scheduled for publication in 2020.  It might be the last Andy Horton, on the other hand I do have an idea for another one ...

More updates on my blog and more news over the coming months and you can always subscribe to my monthly newsletter for the latest news.

9 July 2019 Woolston Library, Southampton, 2pm.  Tickets from Woolston Library, Centenary Quay, Victoria Rd, Southampton SO19 9EF Telephone: 023 8083 3007


Crime was on the agenda at Totton Library with author Pauline Rowson

I was pleased to entertain the small but perfectly formed and excited audience at Totton Library, Southampton on 20 June with tales of murder, mystery and mayhem. I talked to fifteen readers about how I write my crime novels and my crime busting fictional heroes, the flawed and rugged DI Andy Horton, (14) my undercover investigator, Art Marvik a former Royal Marine Commando (3); my two standalone thrillers and my new 1950 Scotland Yard detective, Inspector Alun Ryga who sees his debut investigation in September 2019 with a baffling crime on Portland Island, Dorset.

I explained how locations along the south coast of England provide the inspiration for my mystery thrillers of which there are now twenty and how I turn these ideas into multi-layered and gripping plots, how I develop plot lines, create characters using spidergrams and how I research my crime novels. All my mystery thrillers are set against the backdrop of the ever changing sea on the south coast of England.

Pauline Rowson at Totton Library, Southampton

Following my talk there was a lively question and answer session and a book signing. My thanks to all who came and to Totton an Hampshire Libraries for hosting the event.

Dead Passage is the latest Inspector Andy Horton mystery to be published, number 14 in the series, available in paperback, as an ebook, on Amazon Kindle and Kobo.

A mysterious telephone call sends Horton on a complex and twisted investigation into the death of a local politician twelve years ago and uncovers a trail of lies, secrets and revenge with roots deep in the past.

"A detective novel in the tradition of Rankin and Harvey." Mystery People Magazine









Lost Voyage is the latest Art Marvik mystery thriller, number 3 in the series. Marvik faces a desperate battle to save others from a ruthless assassin who will stop at nothing in order to protect the secret of the Mary Jo’s last voyage from ever being exposed. "Plenty of action, I didn't want to put the book down. A good read for mystery/ thriller fans." Net Galley













My next crime to be published  on 26 September 2019, the first in a brand new series set in 1950 England introducing Scotland Yard detective, Inspector Alun Ryga who is called up to solve coastal crimes. DEATH IN THE COVE is set on Portland Island, Dorset.

It will be published in paperback, as an e book, on Amazon Kindle and on Kobo and as an audio book on 26 September. Available for pre-order.

Recently promoted to Inspector at Scotland Yard the former merchant navy seaman and German prisoner-of-war is despatched to the Island of Portland in Dorset to solve an unusual and baffling case.

On location in the Art Marvik mystery thrillers by Pauline Rowson


Former Royal Marine Commando, Special Boat Services Officer Art Marvik is tough, highly trained, fearless, intelligent and fit but injuries inflicted while in combat have forced him to leave the marines and seek a new life in Civvy Street.

Marvik’s not sure what lies ahead for him but when his former Royal Marine comrade, Shaun Strathen, enlists his help to find a missing computer scientist and a former girlfriend of Marvik’s goes missing after visiting him in his remote Isle of Wight cottage Marvik finds himself attached to the UK's newly formed and covert National Marine Intelligence Squad (NIMS) led by Detective Chief Superintendent Crowder.
Silent Running launches Marvik on a new career as an undercover investigator.

His second mission takes him to the Dorset Jurassic Coast in Dangerous Cargo where Marvik finds himself on the trail of a 50-year-old mystery, his task to catch a ruthless killer whose murders span over half a century.

'Rowson’s superhero, Art Marvik, returns in another pulse-pounding adventure. The plot starts slowly but ramps up quickly, delivering more than enough action to keep adrenaline junkies reading.' Booklist





And Marvik's third mission, in Lost Voyage, takes him along the East Sussex coast to the cliffs of the Severn Sisters, Beachy Head, the port of Newhaven and the seaside town of Eastbourne. A woman framed for murder, a salvage tug which went missing in 2003, Marvik is called in to investigate.  As he delves into the past it soon becomes clear he faces a desperate battle to keep others safe from a ruthless assassin – one who will stop at nothing in order to protect the secret of the Mary Jo’s last voyage from ever being exposed.







See where the Marvik Mysteries are set





Read more about the Marvik Mysteries


Watch the Marvik Mysteries book trailers



Where to buy

Pauline Rowson's books USA

Pauline Rowson's books UK

From your local bookshop


Also available as an ebook and on Amazon Kindle, Kobo and for loan from UK, USA, Irish and Commonwealth libraries. SILENT RUNNING and DANGEROUS CARGO are also available as audio books



Compelling crime mystery novels by Pauline Rowson

The latest video showcasing all the gripping, multi-layered, mystery crime novels and thrillers by Pauline Rowson - the Inspector Andy Horton mysteries (14); the Art Marvik mystery thrillers (3); two standalone thrillers and the new 1950 set crime novels introducing Scotland Yard detective, Inspector Alun Ryga.

"Pauline Rowson is the mistress of weaving intricate plot twists in complicated tales that keep the reader on his/her toes to the very end...an author who never disappoints." Amazon



Dangerous Cargo, Art Marvik has a new and deadly mission

The second in this fast-paced, action-packed crime series featuring undercover investigator, former Royal Marine Commando, Art Marvik. His mission to catch a ruthless killer whose murders span over half a century.

Tough, fearless and fit, Marvik is not bound by the rules of the law.

Dangerous Cargo is now available as an audio book, narrated by Peter Noble. Also out in paperback, as an ebook, on Amazon Kindle and on Kobo.

On location with Inspector Andy Horton in, DEATH LIES BENEATH

DEATH LIES BENEATH is a multi-layered Detective Inspector Andy Horton mystery crime novel, number 8 in the series (14).

There are two locations that inspired me for the setting of DEATH LIES BENEATH, one was the marshes on the northern boundary of the city of Portsmouth, facing on to Langstone Harbour, Farlington Marshes. The other was the area of Tipner, or more specifically the sea bordering this north western boundary of Portsmouth, which filters into Portsmouth Harbour.

Here is a selection of photographs of the setting for DEATH LIES BENEATH.




 Ex con Daryl Woodley is found dead in a remote location of Farlington Marshes. Farlington Marshes is part of Hampshire and the Isle of Wight Wildlife Trust. It is a coastal grazing marsh and lagoon which has several pools, and a broad stream providing feeding and roosting sites for waders and wildfowl.

Farlington Marshes, featured in DI Andy Horton, Death Lies Beneath

 The marshes were reclaimed from the harbour in 1771. During World War 2 it was used as a starfish site acting as a decoy for Portsea Island. The control blockhouses remain on the marshes

The Intelligence Directorate believe Woodley's murder is linked to big time crook Marty Stapleton currently serving time in prison. DI Horton is not so sure.

Farlington Marshes, featured in DI Andy Horton, Death Lies Beneath

He attends Woodley’s funeral in the hope it will give them a lead in an investigation that has drawn a blank at every turn. It does but not in the way he or anyone expected.

Then a woman's body is found on a rotting boat being salvaged in Portsmouth Harbour in Tipner Lake within the Portsmouth Harbour special protection area.  Moves to reclaim the land for the expansion of Portsmouth were rejected in the early 1990s on environmental grounds but the area around the Tipner quayside has been cleared in preparation for the re-development which at the time of writing has not happened.

Portsmouth Harbour featured in the Inspector Andy Horton crime novels



DI Andy Horton's investigations take him across the Solent to the Isle of Wight

 Horton is catapulted into a complex and frustrating investigation which takes him across the Solent to the Isle of Wight. As the tension mounts to solve the case, Horton receives a chilling message; time, it seems, is also running out for him personally…



"A fast paced excellent mystery, with an interesting diverse set of characters, and an intriguing hook at the end that has me eagerly awaiting the next installment in this series.Highly recommended." Mystery People

"A treat for fans of the puzzle-box mystery." Kirkus Reviews

"Rowson’s solid eighth police procedural featuring Det. Insp. Andy Horton...convincing characters and a coherent plot bolster a crafty solution to the crimes." Publishers Weekly

"Pauline Rowson is an excellent constructor of false trails and DEATH LIES BENEATH is no exception. Carefully plotted, Andy Horton is a likeable if flawed character." Mysteries in Paradise

Available in paperback and as an ebook, on Amazon Kindle and Kobo and as an unabridged audio book. Also available for loan from UK, USA and Commonwealth libraries.

Where to buy


Pauline Rowson's books at The Book Depository (free worldwide delivery)

Pauline Rowson's books USA

Pauline Rowson's books UK

From your local bookshop


Also available as an ebook and on Amazon Kindle, Kobo and for loan from UK, USA, Irish and Commonwealth libraries


How did you come up with DI Andy Horton and Art Marvik, are they based on real people?

I like heroes. I make no apology for that and being married to a former veteran and fire fighter I had plenty of material to choose from.

Andy Horton is a combination of many men I have met during my adult life primarily those who I have met through my husband’s career as a fire fighter, fit, fearless, caring and with a strong sense of duty to the public. Andy Horton has all these qualities and along with being tough and resilient he is also deeply empathetic.

His empathy enables him to put himself in a victim’s shoes, to imagine events from their perspective (even the moments up to their death), making leaps of deduction few would be able to. And he’s most often right. But it also makes him vulnerable. He carries a lot of personal baggage as many people do, men especially, who have difficulty in unburdening themselves and sharing their problems.

Abandoned by his mother at the age of ten, with no knowledge of his father he's been raised in children's homes and in care. This has made him a very self-contained person, who finds it difficult to trust. He is especially tough on bullies, or people who abuse their power or position, as they remind him of the people in the children’s homes. When this happens, when his guard slips, he’s like a raw nerve. He fears his emotions will betray him.

He feels a duty of care to the victims of the crimes he investigates and often feels like he’s the only person looking out for them; the only one who can bring the guilty to justice so that the dead can rest. No one cared about him when he was a child; he won’t let that happen to anyone else.

An Inspector Andy Horton Mystery

And what about Art Marvik?


With Marvik I wanted a character who was not bound by the official rules of the law, but who was nevertheless on the right side of it and the Marvik novels had to have all the hallmarks of my brand – a troubled hero, the sea, boats, interesting and diverse characters and lots of action.

Marvik, like Horton, is also fit and tough, but he is a former Royal Marine, Special Boat Services officer while Andy Horton is a copper.  Whereas Andy Horton is emotionally scarred, Marvik is physically scarred having incurred facial injuries in combat. He’s also desperately trying to adjust to a new life outside the services and this can be very difficult for a number of veterans (and fire fighters) who have seen a lot of action and trauma and experienced many high adrenaline fixes.

Marvik thought he’d be able to adjust and carve out a new career for himself on the sea, but his first job as a private maritime security operative goes very wrong when the luxury motor cruiser he was travelling on and had been detailed to guard, gets attacked by pirates in the Indian Ocean, and Marvik finds himself with a bullet in his shoulder and the boat’s owner dead. He’d failed on his first mission in civilian life, and Silent Running opens with him reeling from it. When he’s invited to work undercover on dangerous assignments for Detective Superintendent Crowder’s National Intelligence Marine Squad, Marvik grabs it with both hands.

Marvik's role is to go into a mission with the minimum of information, to probe, ask questions, stir up trouble and provoke the truth and a killer into the open. There are currently three in the Marvik mystery thriller series, Silent Running, Dangerous Cargo and Lost Voyage.


The Art Marvik mystery thrillers


Who would play Inspector Andy Horton or Art Marvik in a TV series of film?

As to who would play them on TV or in a film that is difficult to answer because every reader sees the characters differently, especially Andy Horton who I have never physically described in any of the novels. When I ask readers this question the actors they come up with are: Tom Hardy, Jason Statham and Paul Bettany. Michael Fassbender I think would make a great Art Marvik. His characteristics as described on IMDB are: "Deep, calm voice combined with emotionally intense gritty performances” Sounds like my man.

Read an extract from Detective Inspector Andy Horton Mystery, Death Lies Beneath

DEATH LIES BENEATH is number 8 in the Detective Inspector Andy Horton series of police procedural mysteries (14). It is set in June, so I thought it appropriate to feature it here on my blog this month. Like most of my crime novels it is inspired by locations in the area where I live and where the novels are set, Portsmouth and the Isle of Wight. It is also inspired by topical crimes. In this case, metal thefts, fraud, salvage operations and more.

If you've not read Death Lies Beneath then here's a taster. Read page one of Death Lies Beneath below.

It is available in paperback, as an e book, on Amazon Kindle and on Kobo and also as an unabridged audio book narrated by Gordon Griffin.



DEATH LIES BENEATH

When ex con, Daryl Woodley is found dead on the marshes bordering Langstone Harbour the Intelligence Directorate believe his murder is linked to big time crook Marty Stapleton currently serving time in prison. DI Horton is not so sure. He attends Woodley’s funeral in the hope it will give them a lead in an investigation that has drawn a blank at every turn. It does but not in the way he or anyone expected. A body is found on a rotting boat being salvaged in Portsmouth Harbour throws Horton into a complex and frustrating investigation. As the tension mounts to solve the case, Horton receives a chilling message; time, it seems, is also running out for him personally…

"A fast paced excellent mystery, with an interesting diverse set of characters, and an intriguing hook at the end that has me eagerly awaiting the next instalment in this series. Highly recommended." Mystery People

Page One of DEATH LIES BENEATH


Tuesday 7 June 3.20pm

‘Anything?’ Detective Superintendent Uckfield asked hopefully.
Inspector Andy Horton shook his head and pulled at his black tie. Loosening his collar, he stepped into the shade of a tree in the crematorium gardens hoping to find some relief from the burning sun and wondering what Uckfield, head of the Major Crime Team, and Detective Chief Superintendent Sawyer of the Intelligence Directorate had expected they’d gain by a police presence – a weeping confession from the killer of Daryl Woodley over his coffin? That would have been nice but Horton knew that Woodley’s handful of mourners would sooner have their private parts tattooed with a blunt and dirty instrument than confess to a crime. And grassing to the police was only one step below being a paedophile in their code. They’d got nothing out of them during the investigation into Woodley’s death and they’d get nothing now. And neither would the crime reporter from the local newspaper, Leanne Payne, he thought watching her slim figure move amongst the mourners as they stood blinking in the bright sunshine like miners released from deep underground.
She addressed a shaven-headed, skinny man with tattoos up his hairy arms. Reggie Thomas, like Daryl Woodley, had been released from Parkhurst Prison on the Isle of Wight in March. When questioned, Reggie claimed to have no knowledge of why his former fellow inmate had been assaulted just off the Portsmouth waterfront eighteen days ago, or why, after three days in hospital, Woodley had risen from his bed and somehow ended up dead at the marshes to the north of the city three miles from the hospital. No one claimed to have driven him there, it was inaccessible by public transport and he could hardly have walked that distance.

Read more of Death Lies Beneath on Amazon

Available in paperback and as an ebook, on Amazon Kindle and Kobo and as an unabridged audio book. Also available for loan from UK, USA and Commonwealth libraries

Where to buy



Pauline Rowson's books at The Book Depository (free worldwide delivery)

Pauline Rowson's books USA

Pauline Rowson's books UK

From your local bookshop


Also available as an ebook and on Amazon Kindle, Kobo and for loan from UK, USA, Irish and Commonwealth libraries


Dead Passage an Inspector Andy Horton mystery "'has all the juicy ingredients that make a good story"

A mysterious telephone call sends Horton on a complex and twisted investigation into the death of a local politician twelve years ago and ...